Vermont Lt. Governor candidates David Zuckerman, John Rodgers face off in debate
Up to date: 9:26 PM EDT Sep 18, 2024
2024 SPECIAL PRESENTATION. THE VERMONT LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR DEBATE. THANKS FOR BEING WITH US THIS EVENING FOR THE VERMONT LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR DEBATE. I’M JACK THURSTON, AND I’M LIZ STRZEPA. TONIGHT WE’RE HOSTING THE DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES RIGHT HERE IN OUR STUDIO. IT’S A CHANCE FOR YOU TO HEAR FROM THEM DIRECTLY BEFORE YOU CAST YOUR VOTE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION. JOINING US IN OUR STUDIO, THE INCUMBENT AND THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, DAVID ZUCKERMAN, AND THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE, JOHN ROGERS. SOME BACKGROUND ON BOTH CANDIDATES. NOW, JOHN ROGERS GREW UP ON A DAIRY FARM IN WEST GLOVER. AFTER GRADUATING FROM COLLEGE, HE OPENED UP A MASONRY BUSINESS IN THE NORTHEAST KINGDOM. ROGERS ALSO SERVED IN BOTH THE VERMONT HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AND IN THE STATE SENATE FOR MORE THAN A DECADE. DEMOCRAT DAVID ZUCKERMAN OF HINESBURG IS THE STATE’S 83RD LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. HE’S A FARMER AND HAS SERVED AS BOTH A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, REPRESENTING PARTS OF CHITTENDEN COUNTY SINCE 1996. HE WAS FIRST ELECTED TO THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR’S OFFICE IN 2017, AND LATER RETURNED TO THE OFFICE IN 2023. NOW, BEFORE WE GET TO OPENING STATEMENTS, WE WANT TO BREAK DOWN THE RULES OF THIS DEBATE. EACH CANDIDATE WILL HAVE ONE MINUTE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT WE WILL ASK THEM. 32ND REBUTTALS WILL BE ALLOWED AT OUR DISCRETION. EACH CANDIDATE WILL ALSO BE GIVEN ONE MINUTE FOR BOTH AN OPENING AND A CLOSING STATEMENT. NOW, SINCE MISTER ROGERS WON THE COIN TOSS, HE WILL DELIVER HIS OPENING STATEMENT FIRST, FOLLOWED BY MISTER ZUCKERMAN, MISTER ROGERS, THE FLOOR IS YOURS. THANK YOU. HELLO, VERMONT. IF YOU’RE TIRED OF THE CRUSHING COST OF PROPERTY TAXES, YOUR ELECTRIC BILLS, RENT AND ALL THE OTHER COSTS THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS ADDED, I’M YOUR GUY. I SERVED IN THE VERMONT LEGISLATURE FOR 16 YEARS AS A DEMOCRAT, AND MY DEMOCRATIC VALUES HAVE NOT CHANGED. BUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS BECAUSE MY OPPONENT AND THE PROGRESSIVES HAVE TAKEN OVER THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, AND THEY’VE DESTROYED IT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE. AND NOW THEY’RE DESTROYING VERMONT BY MAKING IT UNAFFORDABLE. I HAVE WORKED FOR YEARS TO REPRESENT REAL HARD WORKING EVERYDAY AVERAGE VERMONTERS, AND THEY ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND BY THE LEGISLATURE. AND MY OPPONENT. I AM THE ONLY REPRESENTATIVE THAT LOST MY SEAT BECAUSE I SUPPORTED MARRIAGE EQUALITY, AND I HAVE ALWAYS SUPPORTED WOMEN’S RIGHTS AND ALL PEOPLE’S BODILY AUTONOMY. WELL THANK YOU. I’M DAVID ZUCKERMAN, VERMONT’S LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, AND I SERVED IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR 18 YEARS. I WAS RAISED BY MY PARENTS TO WORK HARD AND THAT I COULD BE ANYTHING. I SET MY MIND TO BY BEING THE BEST THAT I COULD AT THAT. THEY ALSO RAISED ME TO RESPECT EVERYONE, NO MATTER WHERE THEY WERE FROM, WHERE THEY WERE BORN, OR WHO THEY ARE. AND WHEN I CAME TO VERMONT, I FOUND A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WORKED TOGETHER TO SOLVE PROBLEMS, TACKLE THE CHALLENGES BEFORE US. BUT AS WE KNOW IN POLITICS, THESE DAYS, AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL AND NOW CREEPING INTO VERMONT, IT’S BECOME A FINGER POINTING AND BLAME GAME WHEN REALLY WE NEED TO ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES LIKE WE DID DURING COVID. COME TOGETHER TO TACKLE THE CHALLENGES LIKE THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING CRISIS, A RISING PROPERTY TAXES AND OUR CLIMATE CRISIS. MANY OF THESE ISSUES ARE MUCH BIGGER THAN VERMONT, AND IT’S A PRODUCT OF OUR ECONOMY AND OTHER FACTORS. BUT WE HAVE SOLUTIONS. AND IN TONIGHT’S DEBATE, WE’LL BE DISCUSSING THE POSSIBILITY OF MAKING SURE FOLKS WHO CAN AFFORD TO PAY MORE DO SO THAT WE CAN HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IN VERMONT, CLEAN WATER AND TAKE CARE OF OUR SCHOOLS FOR OUR KIDS. ALL RIGHT, GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU. NOW TO OUR FIRST SEGMENT OF QUESTION, STARTING WITH AFFORDABILITY. IT’S BECOMING MORE AND MORE EXPENSIVE TO LIVE IN VERMONT. JUST LAST WEEK, THE STATE RELEASED A REPORT THAT SAYS IN ORDER TO FILL THE EDUCATION SPENDING GAP, FAMILIES COULD FACE ANOTHER HEFTY TAX INCREASE NEXT YEAR, RIGHT AFTER VERMONTERS ARE FACING DOUBLE DIGIT INCREASES THIS YEAR. WHAT WILL YOU RECOMMEND THAT THE LEGISLATURE DOES ABOUT THIS WHEN THEY RECONVENE IN JANUARY? WE’LL LET MR. ZUCKERMAN GO FIRST. SURE. THIS IS CLEARLY THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE ON THE TABLE AS FAR AS TAXES. AND WHEN WE LOOK AT THE CHALLENGES WE’RE FACING, IT’S DUE TO A NUMBER OF ISSUES IN JUST THE LAST FOUR YEARS, WE’VE SEEN THE GOVERNOR’S BUDGET MOVE BETWEEN 60 AND $100 MILLION OF HUMAN SERVICES EXPENSES ONTO THE SCHOOLS AND PROPERTY TAXES. I MET WITH THE GOVERNOR EIGHT YEARS AGO SAYING WE SHOULD WORK ON MAKING SURE HUMAN SERVICES AND EDUCATION CAN WORK TOGETHER, THAT WE CAN REDUCE THE BUREAUCRACY BETWEEN THEM AND WE CAN GET TO CHILDREN EARLIER IN THEIR CHALLENGES AND STRUGGLES TO CREATE BETTER OUTCOMES. I WILL CERTAINLY CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT THAT AND WORK WITH LEGISLATORS TO TACKLE THAT ASPECT OF THE COST AND THE SYSTEM. WE ALSO NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE LOOK AT MAKING THE FUNDING SYSTEM MORE PROGRESSIVE. RIGHT NOW, THOSE MAKING OVER $400,000 A YEAR PAY A SMALLER PERCENTAGE OF THEIR INCOME THAN THE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE WHO MAKE $128,000 OR LESS IN VERMONT. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE IT’S FAIR ACROSS THE BOARD BASED ON INCOME THAT ALONE WILL ACTUALLY SAVE WORKING CLASS FOLKS ABOUT $30 MILLION A YEAR AS WELL. YEAH, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE HAVE HAD THIS ISSUE ON THEIR PLATE FOR MANY YEARS. THEY’VE DONE 38 STUDIES, AND THEY DON’T STUDY AN ISSUE BECAUSE IT’S NOT A PROBLEM. THEY KNEW THIS WAS COMING DOWN THE PIKE. AND THEY WERE NEGLIGENT IN THEIR DUTIES TO NOT DEAL WITH IT. THE EDUCATION FUNDING SYSTEM HAS BEEN A PROBLEM SINCE I WAS FIRST ELECTED IN 2003, AND IT’S TIME TO TAKE SOME OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS OUT OF THOSE 38 STUDIES AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING AVERAGE, VERMONTERS CAN NO LONGER AFFORD THEIR PROPERTY TAXES. AND THERE ARE ALSO SOME PROBLEMS WITH THE REBATE SYSTEMS WHERE PEOPLE WHO OWN MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR HOMES AND HAVE HUGE INCOME THAT THEY DON’T HAVE TO DECLARE AS INCOME, AND THEY GET REBATES ON THEIR PROPERTIES, AND IT’S TIME TO MAKE A MORE EQUITABLE SYSTEM SO THAT AVERAGE VERMONTERS DON’T HAVE TO MOVE OUT OF STATE OR LOSE THEIR HOME BECAUSE THEY CAN’T AFFORD PROPERTY TAXES. OKAY, WELL, LET’S DRILL DOWN ON THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT FURTHER. WHAT, IF ANY, COST CONTAINMENT MEASURES OR MAYBE NEW APPROACHES TO FUNDING PUBLIC EDUCATION. WOULD YOU EACH LIKE TO SEE TO MAKE IT MORE AFFORDABLE ON VERMONTERS? MANY OF WHOM, OF COURSE, CARE VERY, VERY DEEPLY ABOUT THE QUALITY OF EDUCATION THAT THEIR CHILDREN RECEIVE? MR. ROGERS, YOU FIRST. YEAH, FROM FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IN MANY OF THE STUDIES, ONE OF THE BIG ISSUES WAS ADMINISTRATION. AND IN A LOT OF STATES AND CITIES, THEY HAVE A LARGER POPULATION THAN VERMONT. THEY HAVE ONE SUPERVISORY UNION. AND SO THAT’S THE FIRST THING WE HAVE TO LOOK AT. WE ALSO NEED TO DO A COMPLETE ASSESSMENT OF ALL THE BUILDINGS WE HAVE, AS MANY OF THEM ARE IN BAD REPAIR. THEY WERE BUILT IN THE 60S. SOME OF THEM DON’T FIT PROGRAMMATICALLY. AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THE BEST PLACE TO SITE SCHOOLS, BECAUSE WE DON’T WANT KIDS ON BUSSES FOR A LONG TIME. I GREW UP IN THE COUNTRY. I RODE A BUS AN HOUR EACH DIRECTION AND IT’S HARD ON KIDS TO RIDE THAT FAR, BUT THERE ARE SOME COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE’S A WHOLE BUNCH OF SCHOOLS THAT ARE FAIRLY CLOSE TOGETHER. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT CONSOLIDATION, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EFFICIENCIES THROUGHOUT THE ADMINISTRATION OF SCHOOL, AND WE HAVE TO FIND COST SAVINGS BECAUSE THE COST OF EDUCATING OUR CHILDREN IS NOW MORE THAN VERMONTERS CAN AFFORD. WELL, THERE ARE ASPECTS OF THAT THAT I VERY MUCH AGREE WITH MY OPPONENT ABOUT. AND I’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THOSE AND WORKING WITH FOLKS FOR YEARS ON THAT. THE LEGISLATURE DOESN’T ALWAYS LISTEN, AS JOHN KNOWS, EVEN WHEN HE WAS A LEGISLATOR, THEY OFTEN DIDN’T LISTEN TO SOME OF HIS IDEAS, NOT EVEN SURE EXACTLY WHAT MAJOR ISSUES YOU PROPOSED THAT PASSED. BUT LET’S LOOK AT EDUCATION FUNDING. LIKE I SAID EARLIER, THERE’S A $30 MILLION TAX SHIFT THAT’S BEEN PUT ON THE BACKS OF WORKING VERMONTERS FOR YEARS BY THE THE PROPERTY TAX SYSTEM, NOT MAKING WEALTHY PEOPLE PAY BASED ON INCOME. WE ALSO KNOW THAT VERMONT IS THE SECOND MOST SECOND HOMES IN THE COUNTRY, WITH ABOUT 58,002ND HOMES IN 90 TOWNS. THEY PAY A LOWER TAX RATE THAN PRIMARY RESIDENCES. WE NEED TO LOOK AT MAKING A NEW CLASS OF PROPERTY AS SECOND HOMES, AND HAVE THOSE FOLKS PAY MORE INTO THE SYSTEM TO HELP VERMONTERS SAVE MONEY. THEY CAN AFFORD IT. FOLKS WITH TWO HOMES CAN AFFORD TO HELP VERMONTERS HAVE ONE HOME AND KEEP THEIR HOME. AND THEN THIRD, AS I SAID EARLIER, THERE’S ABOUT A 60 TO $100 MILLION TAX SHIFT FROM THE AGENCY OF HUMAN SERVICES AND GENERAL FUND ONTO THE PROPERTY TAX SIDE OF THE LEDGER. WE NEED TO LOOK AT THAT AS WELL AS WELL AS REVIEWING ISSUES LIKE CONSOLIDATION, WHICH WE DID A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO. AND MISTER ROGERS, I WANTED TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO RESPOND TO THAT JAB THAT YOUR OPPONENT GAVE YOU THERE. HE ASKED WHAT INITIATIVES YOU PROPOSED PASSED IN THE STATE HOUSE. OH, I PROPOSED SOME INITIATIVES, BUT I HAVEN’T BEEN IN THE STATE HOUSE NEARLY AS LONG AS THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HAS. AND QUITE FRANKLY, HE HAS THE PERFECT PLATFORM TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE. AND HE HASN’T BEEN USING IT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, I WILL WORK WITH LEGISLATORS. I WILL BE IN COMMITTEES AND HELP SOLVE THE PROBLEMS BY WORKING WITH PEOPLE FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE. A LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HAS A BROAD RANGE OF WHAT THEY CAN DO. THEY CAN HELP CREATE POLICY, AND THEY CAN ALSO FIGHT AGAINST BAD POLICY. MR. ZUCKERMAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO RESPOND TO THAT? WELL, ABSOLUTELY. I HAVE WORKED TO CREATE POLICY BOTH AS A LEGISLATOR AND YOU WERE THERE FOR 16 YEARS, SO YOU HAD PLENTY OF OPPORTUNITIES. BUT AS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, I HAVE USED MY NEWSLETTER AS WELL AS THE PODIUM TO ADVOCATE FOR MANY ISSUES, INCLUDING SUPPORTING THE HOUSE VERSION OF THE AFFORDABLE AFFORDABLE HOUSING BILL, WHICH WOULD HAVE RAISED TAXES ON THOSE WITH OVER $500,000 OF INCOME TO INVEST $75 MILLION A YEAR IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING. THE GOVERNOR AND THE SENATE. SO IT’S NONPARTISAN. DEFEATED THAT I WILL CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE FOR THAT AS WELL AS MANY OTHER ISSUES. I WILL POINT OUT THAT MOST LEGISLATORS DON’T WANT THE ADMINISTRATION IN THE COMMITTEE ROOMS DAY BY DAY. THERE’S A SEPARATION OF POWERS ISSUE. THERE THAT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO RESPECT. OKAY. WE WANT TO GET ON TO SOME OF OUR OTHER QUESTIONS HERE. THOUSANDS OF VERMONTERS ARE JUST NOW PREPARING TO ADJUST THEIR MONTHLY BUDGETS AS PROPERTY TAX INCREASES ARE ABOUT TO GO INTO EFFECT. AND IT SEEMS WE’RE ALL PAYING MORE FOR LESS AT THE GROCERY STORE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO VERMONT FAMILIES WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAN AFFORD TO STAY HERE LONG TERM? MR. ZUCKERMAN? WELL, MY MESSAGE IS VERY CLEAR. I’M HEARING IT FROM LOTS OF PEOPLE. WE KNOW IT. WE ALL JUST GOT OUR BILLS. THEY ROSE TREMENDOUSLY. AND IT’S REALLY, REALLY HARD ON A LOT OF FOLKS. FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD WORK ON, AGAIN, THE PROPERTY TAX ISSUE THAT WE JUST SPOKE ABOUT, AND I’VE OFFERED THREE IDEAS AND I’LL EVEN OFFER A FOURTH, WHICH IS THAT UNEARNED INCOME WHICH MY OPPONENT JUST SPOKE ABOUT COULD BE COUNTED 2 OR 3 TIMES IN FIGURING OUT INCOME SENSITIVITY IN ORDER TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT FOLKS WEALTH THAT MIGHT BE IN THE STOCK MARKET OR SOME OTHER WAY THAT THEY’RE MAKING MONEY SO THAT THEY DON’T GET THOSE REBATE CHECKS. BUT ALSO, WHEN IT COMES TO AFFORDABLE HOUSING, I WILL ADVOCATE, AS I JUST SPOKE ABOUT, THAT, THOSE WHO ARE MAKING OVER $500,000 COULD AFFORD TO PAY 10 OR 15,000 MORE A YEAR TO GENERATE $70 MILLION TO PAY DOWN THE PRICE OF BUILDING HOUSING. PEOPLE KNOW THAT THE COST OF MATERIALS AND THE COST OF LABOR ALONE MAKE IT SO THAT EVEN BUILDING A HOUSE IS NO LONGER AFFORDABLE. SO IT WILL TAKE OUR COLLECTIVE RESOURCES, PARTICULARLY FROM THOSE THAT CAN AFFORD TO PAY IT, TO MAKE SURE WE BUILD HOUSING IN VERMONT. THAT WORKING CLASS VERMONTERS CAN AFFORD. I’M SORRY, LIZ, COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION I WAS WRITING AND MISSED IT. NO PROBLEM. THOUSANDS OF VERMONTERS ARE JUST NOW PREPARING TO ADJUST THEIR MONTHLY BUDGETS AS PROPERTY TAX INCREASES ARE ABOUT TO GO INTO EFFECT. IT SEEMS WE’RE ALL PAYING MORE FOR LESS AT THE GROCERY STORE, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO VERMONT FAMILIES WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY CAN AFFORD TO STAY HERE LONG TERM? LIZ. THAT’S WHY I’M RUNNING FOR OFFICE, BECAUSE I THINK MY OPPONENT HAS BEEN THERE AND HASN’T USED HIS OFFICE AS MUCH AS I WILL USE IT. I THINK VOTERS NEED TO MAKE A CHANGE AND CREATE SOME BALANCE IN THE STATE HOUSE. I THINK THE PROGRESSIVE SUPERMAJORITY MUST COME FROM A DIFFERENT WORLD THAN I CAME FROM, BECAUSE THEY KEEP RAISING THE COST OF LIVING AT A HIGHER RATE THAN PEOPLE’S INCOMES ARE GOING UP. IT’S COMPLETELY UNSUSTAINABLE. AND I’M WORRIED ABOUT MORE PEOPLE LOSING THEIR HOUSES BECAUSE THEY CAN’T AFFORD TO KEEP UP WITH THE COST AND THE LEGISLATURE KEEPS ADDING TO THE COST OF ELECTRICITY. THE COST OF HEATING FUEL, THE COST OF PROPERTY TAXES. AND IT’S UNSUSTAINABLE FOR VERMONTERS. AND I DON’T BELIEVE MY GRANDCHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO LIVE HERE AND SO MY PLAN IS TO WORK FOR AFFORDABILITY AND WE NEED TO GO BACK TO THOSE 38 STUDIES THAT THE LEGISLATURE ORDERED AND SPENT A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY ON, AND THEN NEVER DID ANYTHING WITH THOSE STUDIES, THEY NEVER ADDRESSED THE CORE ISSUES. VERMONT’S HOUSING MARKET OF COURSE, CONTINUES TO BE INCREDIBLY, INCREDIBLY COMPETITIVE WITH DEMAND OUTPACING SUPPLY AND PRICES OUT OF REACH FOR MANY. WHAT ARE YOUR IDEAS FOR CREATING MORE HOUSING, AND WHERE DO YOU WANT TO SEE MORE UNITS OF HOUSING BUILT? YOU FIRST, MR. ROGERS. WELL, FIRST OFF, I THINK THE ACT 250 BILL THAT THE LEGISLATURE JUST PASSED IS REALLY PROBLEMATIC. THE FIRST THING IT DOES IS CREATES A GLIDE PATH FOR DEVELOPERS IN MANY MUNICIPALITIES THAT ARE ALREADY DUMPING RAW SEWAGE INTO OUR WATERWAYS. AND I DON’ BELIEVE THERE SHOULD BE ANY NEW DEVELOPMENT IN MUNICIPALITIES THAT ARE DUMPING RAW SEWAGE INTO OUR WATERWAYS, UNLESS THOSE DEVELOPMENTS CAN PROVE THAT THEY’RE GOING TO REDUCE THOSE OVERFLOWS. SECONDLY, IT MAKES IT HARDER AND MORE EXPENSIVE FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DEVELOP IN RURAL AREAS. IN MOST OF THE VERMONTERS I KNOW CAME HERE OR GREW UP HERE, THEY WANT TO LIVE IN A RURAL COMMUNITY BECAUSE HOME OWNERSHIP IS HOW PEOPLE BUILD EQUITY. THAT’S HOW THEY BUILD INTERGENERATIONAL GROWTH. LIVING IN AN APARTMENT ONLY CONCENTRATES WEALTH. WELL, THANK YOU FOR THE QUESTION. AND FROM WHAT I JUST HEARD, IT MEANS SORT OF HOUSING UP THE HILLSIDES AND ACROSS ALL THE LANDSCAPE. AND I THINK VERMONTERS REALLY VALUE WHAT VERMONT IS. AND THAT’S PARTLY FROM ACT 250 BEING IMPLEMENTED WHEN THE HIGHWAYS CAME IN. AND THAT’S WHY PEOPLE LOVE THE LANDSCAPE OF VERMONT AND THE WORKING LANDSCAPE OF VERMONT. BUT THERE IS LET’S BE CLEAR. YOU CAN BUILD HOUSING IN RURAL VERMONT UNDER ACT 250. THE QUESTION IS, WHERE DO YOU WANT DENSE DEVELOPMENT? WHERE DO YOU WANT TO BUILD THE QUANTITY OF HOUSING THAT WE NEED? NOW, MY OPPONENT HAS JUST MENTIONED NOT IN TOWN. AND VILLAGE CENTERS. SO HE WANTS SPRAWL EVERYWHERE. APPARENTLY. I THINK WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS WHAT ACT 250 ADJUSTMENT BILL. JUST DID BUILD IN OUR TOWN AND VILLAGE CENTERS, WHERE THERE IS WATER AND SEWER CONTINUE TO INVEST IN THAT WATER AND SEWER. SO WE HAVE FEWER COMBINED SEWER OVERFLOWS, WHICH IS WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. AND ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, WE’RE HAVING MORE OF THOSE BECAUSE WE’RE GETTING SUCH INTENSE RAINS. SO WE HAVE TO MAKE PUBLIC DOLLAR INVESTMENTS. SO THE SEWER SYSTEMS CAN HANDLE IT. BUT ALSO BUILD DENSELY WHERE YOU CAN BUILD MORE COST EFFECTVELY, MORE AFFORDABLY AND BETTER FOR THE CLIMATE. MR. ROGERS WILL OFFER YOU A REBUTTAL HERE IF YOU’D LIKE IT. YES. IT’S DISTURBING. MY OPPONENT HAS TO BE DISHONEST. IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE AN HONEST CONVERSATION. I NEVER SAID THAT I WAS FOR SPRAWL. HE SEEMS TO THINK IT’S OKAY TO DEVELOP AND DUMP MORE RAW SEWAGE INTO OUR WATERWAYS. I’M A LITTLE BIT MORE ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY THAN THAT. IT’S ODD THAT THE PROGRESSIVES SEEM TO WANT TO CONSERVE EVERYONE’S LAND WITHOUT COMPENSATION, AND SO I AM NOT FOR DESTROYING THE MOUNTAINS AS MY OPPONENT IS. HE SUPPORTED RIDGELINE, INDUSTRIAL WIND. I DO NOT. AND YOUR FINAL THOUGHTS ON THIS QUESTION, MR. ZUCKERMAN? WELL, THERE’S A COUPLE DIFFERENT THOUGHTS THERE FOR ONE, I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED RENEWABLE ENERGY. WE HAVE BOTH THE NEED FOR WIND AND THE NEED FOR SOLAR, AND WE NEED TO OWN THE ENERGY THAT WE USE. AND WE CONSUME. HAVING IT IN OUR BACKYARD IS PART OF WHAT’S BEING RESPONSIBLE. IT DOESN’T MEAN RIDGELINE WIND EVERYWHERE, BUT IT DOES MEAN HAVING ENERGY IN VERMONT. AND WHEN I SEE THOSE WIND TURBINES, I ACTUALLY THINK ABOUT MY DAUGHTER AND HER FUTURE. AND I KNOW MANY PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FLOODING AND BARRE OR LYNDONVILLE OR LUDLOW. SO THAT’S ONE ISSUE. AND THEN WITH RESPECT TO HOUSING, IT’S NOT GOING TO BE EVERYWHERE. BUT ALSO IN RURAL AREAS, YOU CAN BUILD HOUSING THAT’S NOT BEING STOPPED BY THE ACT, AND THAT IS YOUR TIME. MR. ZUCKERMAN, LET’S SWITCH GEARS A BIT TO TALK ABOUT CRIME AND PUBLIC SAFETY. VERMONT HAS NEW, STRONGER PENALTIES FOR PEOPLE WHO REPEATEDLY STEAL FROM STORES, INCLUDING HIGHER FINES AND POTENTIAL SENTENCES FOR MISDEMEANOR SHOPLIFTING OFFENSES. BUT MANY, INCLUDING SOME PROSECUTORS, WORRY THAT ALL THIS WON’T BE ENOUGH OF A DETERRENT AND THAT THE REAL PROBLEMS THEY SAY DRIVING THEFT, ARE SUBSTANCE USE DISORDERS AND LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING. SO WHAT MORE COULD OUR STATE DO TO ADDRESS THIS KIND OF LOW LEVEL CRIME IN OUR COMMUNITIES, MR. ROGERS? WELL, THE FIRST THING IS, I DON’T SUPPORT DEFUNDING THE POLICE LIKE MY OPPONENT HAS IN THE PAST. I WAS DOWNTOWN TALKING WITH THE CHIEF OF POLICE IN IN BURLINGTON AND LISTENED, LISTENING TO THEIR STATISTICS AND THE ISSUES THAT THEY’RE DEALING WITH. AND I THINK VERMONTERS FEEL MORE UNSAFE NOW THAN THEY EVER HAVE. AND MUCH OF IT IS DRIVEN BY DRUG CRIME, BY DRUG TRAFFICKING, DRUG DEALING, DRUG USE, DRIVING, THE NEED FOR RETAIL THEFT TO SUPPORT THEIR HABITS. AND SO FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THE POLICE ARE PROPERLY FUNDED. WE NEED TO MAKE SURE OUR JUDICIARY IS PROPERLY FUNDED AND WE NEED TO GIVE THEM THE SUPPORT THAT THEY NEED, BECAUSE THE FOCUS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS ON DRUG TRAFFICKERS IN TRYING TO TAKE MORE OF THAT OUT OF OUR AREA, BECAUSE MUCH OF THE VIOLENCE WHEN YOU HEAR ABOUT THE SHOOTINGS AND THE STABBINGS IN ALL OUR DOWNTOWNS, MOST OF THAT IS DRIVEN BY THE DRUG PROBLEM. WELL, THERE’S A FEW THINGS HERE. FIRST OF ALL, LET ME CORRECT THE RECORD. I’VE NEVER SAID LET’S DEFUND THE POLICE. SO AGAIN, LET’S USE FACTS. THERE ARE MANY WHO BELIEVE THAT PUBLIC SAFETY IS NOT ONLY LAW ENFORCEMENT, BUT ALSO MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELING. IT’S ALSO SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER SUPPORT AND REHABILITATION. IT’S ALSO GOOD EDUCATION. AND AS YOU MENTIONED IN THE QUESTION, IT’S ALSO AFFORDABLE HOUSING. SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE ISSUES, THEY’RE ALL INTERCONNECTED. EXCUSE ME. MY OPPONENT’S TALKED ABOUT MORE MONEY FOR POLICE. HE’S TALKED ABOUT MORE MONEY FOR COMBINED SEWER OVERFLOWS. AND REGULATIONS IN DOWNTOWNS. AND NOW ALSO MORE PEOPLE POTENTIALLY BEING LOCKED UP. THESE THINGS ALL COST MONEY. AND THE QUESTION IS, YOU CAN’T REALLY HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO AND SAY EVERYTHING’S TOO EXPENSIVE AND THEN PROPOSE ALL THESE THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO ACTUALLY COST MONEY. WHAT FOLKS WANTED TO DO IS USE LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR LAW BREAKING, BUT ALSO SUPPLEMENT LAW ENFORCEMENT WITH MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELORS AND SUBSTANCE USE SPECIALISTS TO HELP FOLKS GET OFF OF THESE CHALLENGES AND GET BACK INTO SOCIETY AS PRODUCTIVE CITIZENS UNDER A PILOT PROGRAM, THE CITY OF BURLINGTON WILL SOON BECOME HOME TO VERMONT’S FIRST OVERDOSE PREVENTION SITE, WHERE USERS OF ILLEGAL DRUGS WILL HAVE A PLACE TO CONSUME DANGEROUS SUBSTANCES LIKE HEROIN THAT OFTEN CONTAIN FENTANYL UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF PEOPLE WHO COULD PROVIDE POTENTIALLY LIFE SAVING HELP IF THEY WERE TO OVERDOSE. DO YOU SUPPORT THIS INITIATIVE, AND SHOULD THERE BE OTHER SITES IN VERMONT AND OTHER VERMONT COMMUNITIES? MR. ZUCKERMAN, WE’LL START WITH YOU. WELL, LET ME BE VERY CLEAR. I ABSOLUTELY SUPPORTED THAT BILL. IT IS CLEAR AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT WHERE AND AROUND THE WORLD THAT WHERE HARM REDUCTION SITES ARE PUT INTO PLACE. PEOPLE DON’T DIE, WHICH IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT. AND ACTUAL SUBSTANCE USE WASTE LIKE NEEDLES AND OTHER THINGS ARE ACTUALLY NOT ALL STREWN ABOUT BECAUSE THEY’RE NOT DONE IN DOORWAYS OF BUSINESSES. AND DOORWAYS OF PEOPLE’S IN PEOPLE’S YARDS AND SO FORTH. AND ULTIMATELY IT CREATES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS TO COME IN CONTACT WITH FOLKS WHO ARE READY AND WILLING TO HELP THEM ON THE PATH TOWARDS RECOVERY. SO HARM REDUCTION SITES ARE GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY. IT’S GOOD FOR THE PLAYGROUNDS IT BRINGS. THOSE FOLKS OUT OF THE SCHOOLYARDS AND OTHER PLAYGROUNDS. IT REDUCES THE WASTE THAT’S OUT THERE THAT IS DANGEROUS FOR PEOPLE AND IT HELPS SAVE PEOPLE’S LIVES. AND AS FAR AS MOVING THEM INTO OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE, THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS FIRST ONE IS TO HAVE IT HOPEFULLY WORK, WORK WELL AND LEARN IF THERE’S ANY CHALLENGES OR ISSUES, AND THEN WE WILL LOOK AT WHETHER MORE SHOULD BE PLACED IN OTHER PARTS OF THE STATE. I THINK WHEN WE’RE DEALING WITH THE DRUG ISSUE, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT EVERYTHING POSSIBLE. AND IF THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO SPEND MONEY, THEN I WOULD CERTAINLY SUPPORT IT. IT HAS WORKED IN SOME JURISDICTIONS. THE MAIN THING IS WE NEED OUR STATE GOVERNMENT TO MAKE SURE WE’RE PROVIDING WRAPAROUND SERVICES FOR ANYBODY WHO IS SUFFERING, SUFFERING WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDERS, JUST AS WE HAVE TO DO WITH THE HOMELESS POPULATION. THE MAIN OBJECTIVE IS TO GET PEOPLE INTO TREATMENT AND TRY TO GET THEM OFF WHATEVER SUBSTANCE THEY’RE USING AND TRY TO MAKE THEM INTO A PRODUCTIVE CITIZEN AGAIN. FIND THEM A HOME, FIND THEM A JOB, GIVE THEM THE SKILLS THAT THEY NEED. I’VE BEEN UP AT JENNA’S PROMISE SEVERAL TIMES WITH THE TATRO’S AND SEEING WHAT THOSE FOLKS ARE DOING WITH YOUNG WOMEN WHO ARE SUFFERING WITH SUBSTANCE ABUSE DISORDER IS JUST AMAZING. GIVING THEM THEIR LIFE BACK. AND THAT’S WHAT WE NEED TO DO MORE OF. OKAY, WELL, LET’S SWITCH GEARS A BIT TO TALK ABOUT THE STATE’S HEALTH CARE SYSTEM AND ITS AGING POPULATION. ACCORDING TO THE VERMONT DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, IN THE NEXT SIX YEARS, ONE OUT OF THREE PEOPLE IN VERMONT WILL BE OVER THE AGE OF 60. THIS WILL OF COURSE, PUT MORE PRESSURE AND DEMAND ON OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. SO THE QUESTION IS, HOW CAN THE STATE MEET THAT DEMAND? MR. ROGERS? YEAH, HEALTH CARE IS A SERIOUS ISSUE AND I’VE BEEN DOING SOME READING ON IT, AND I WAS AMAZED TO FIND OUT THAT IN THE UNITED STATES TAXPAYERS FUND ABOUT 35% OF THE POPULATION’S HEALTH CARE INSURANCE. YET WHEN COMPARED TO OTHER INDUSTRIALIZED COUNTRIES, WE’RE SPENDING MORE THAN THEY SPEND ON OUR ENTIRE POPULATION. SO FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, IT’S A HARD SELL TO TRY TO LOOK AT A SINGLE PAYER FOR VERMONT. WE DID IT UNDER THE SHUMLIN ADMINISTRATION. IT WAS PROVEN THAT IT’S FAR TOO EXPENSIVE. BUT IF OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WOULD ACTUALLY DO THE WORK, WE’RE PAYING THEM TO DO, I BELIEVE THAT THERE’S ENOUGH MONEY BEING SPENT IN HEALTH CARE TO PROVIDE FULL COVERAGE FOR EVERY MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD IN THE UNITED STATES. AND I REALLY THINK THAT’S WHAT OUR LEGISLATURE, OUR ADMINISTRATION AND OUR FEDERAL DELEGATION SHOULD ALL BE PUSHING FOR. WE’RE ALREADY SPENDING THE MONEY, BUT WE’RE NOT RECEIVING THE SERVICE. SO THERE’S A LOT HERE TO UNPACK. I SUPPORTED THAT LAW BACK WHEN WE MOVED TOWARDS A UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE PLAN. IT ACTUALLY WASN’T PROVEN THAT IT WOULDN’T WORK. IT NEVER GOT IMPLEMENTED AND I WOULD SUPPORT IMPLEMENTING THAT SO THAT THOSE TAX DOLLARS THAT ARE SPENT ON THE BUREAUCRACY OF GOVERNMENT AND THE BUREAUCRACY OF INSURANCE CLAIMS, AND SO FORTH, COULD BE MOVED TOWARDS HEALTH CARE. I ALSO AM PLEASED TO HAVE BEEN SUPPORTING THE UNIONS THAT HAVE ORGANIZED IN THE MEDICAL CENTERS, THE NURSES, THE SUPPORT STAFF, SO THAT THEY CAN FIGHT FOR AS THEY HAVE BETTER RATIOS TO PROVIDE BETTER CARE. I ALSO THINK THIS GOES BACK TO HOUSING. WE KNOW WE HAVE A SHORTAGE OF WORKFORCE AND AS WE AGE, WE NEED MORE HOUSING FOR MORE FAMILIES THAT ARE IN THE WORKING AGE GROUP. SO THAT WE’LL HAVE THE PEOPLE WE NEED TO PROVIDE THOSE SERVICES TO THOSE WHO ARE 60 AND OLDER. WHEN WE COMPARE TO OTHER COUNTRIES. HE’S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. WE SPEND MORE AND WE GET LESS, BUT I DON’T THINK WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. THAT’S SORT OF LIKE A CONCEPT OF A PLAN. AND WHEN WE LOOK AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND WHETHER THEY’RE GOING TO PASS MAJOR LEGISLATION, I THINK THAT’S A STRETCH. WE NEED TO TAKE CARE OF OUR PROBLEMS RIGHT HERE AT HOME. WE WANT TO ASK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE WORKFORCE. VERMONT HAS LONG SUFFERED FROM WORKFORCE SHORTAGES AND MUCH NEEDED FIELDS, INCLUDING HEALTH CARE, CONSTRUCTION AND OTHER TRADES, AND EVEN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY. ARE THERE ANY NEW WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT APPROACHES THAT YOU WOULD ADVOCATE FOR? MR. ZUCKERMAN? WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE BIGGEST ONES IS ACTUALLY AROUND OUR TECHNICAL SCHOOLS. YOU KNOW, IT USED TO BE THAT YOU COULD COME OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AND YOU COULD GET A MIDDLE CLASS JOB, AND MOST OF THAT HAS DISAPPEARED WITH MANUFACTURING BEING SHIPPED OVERSEAS UNDER BOTH REAGANOMICS AND NEOLIBERAL POLICIES THAT SAY IF MONEY GOES TO THE TOP, THEN SOMEHOW PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM WILL BENEFIT. WE’VE SEEN THIS HOLLOWING OUT IN RURAL AREAS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, SO I BELIEVE AS WE LOOK AT OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM, WE NEED TO REMOVE THE DISINCENTIVE OF OUR SCHOOLS SENDING KIDS AND GIVING KIDS THE OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO THE TRADE SCHOOLS. WE NEED ELECTRICIANS, WE NEED PLUMBERS, WE NEED CARPENTERS, WE NEED ENGINEERS WHO CAN COME OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL AND GO INTO THE TRADES TO BUILD THE HOUSING. WE NEED. IT ALL COMES BACK TO HOUSING, AND IF WE BOTH INVEST IN THOSE TRADE SCHOOLS AND INVEST IN OUR KIDS, THEN THEY CAN STAY HERE IN VERMONT, MAKE A DECENT LIVING AND EXPAND OUR WORKFORCE. WELL, I AGREE WITH MY OPPONENT ON TECH SCHOOLS, AND IT’S SOMETHING THAT I’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR YEARS. ONE OF MY COUSINS GREW UP IN CONNECTICUT, AND WHEN THEY WERE FRESHMEN, THEY COULD DECIDE WHETHER TO GO TO THE TECH SCHOOL OR THE ACADEMIC SCHOOL. HE WENT AND GOT ALL THE TRAINING HE NEEDED TO BECOME AN ELECTRICAL APPRENTICE. AS SOON AS HE GOT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, HE GOT A JOB, WORKED HIS WAY UP TO HIS MASTERS, AND IN NO TIME AT ALL, HE HAD HIS OWN BUSINESS MAKING GOOD MONEY. WE NEED TO DO MORE OF THAT, MORE APPRENTICESHIPS. BUT THE BIG PROBLEM HERE IS THE COST OF HOUSING. AND WHEN I TALK TO YOUNG KIDS, YOUNG PEOPLE, NONE OF THEM CAN MAKE ENOUGH MONEY IN THE AREA THAT THEY LIVE IN TO AFFORD TO BUY A HOUSE ANYMORE. AND IF THEY CAN BUY THAT HOUSE, CAN THEY PAY THE PROPERTY TAXES? VERMONT’S THE THIRD HIGHEST TAXED STATE IN THE COUNTRY. OUR ELECTRIC RATES ARE AMONG THE HIGHEST. SO WHEN OUR KIDS LOOK AT THE INCOME POTENTIAL COMPARED WITH THE COST OF LIVING IN VERMONT, ALMOST EVERY OTHER STATE IN THE UNION IS MORE ATTRACTIVE. AND SO THAT’S OUR BIG HURDLE RIGHT THERE IS BRINGING THE COST OF LIVING DOWN. WE RECENTLY EXPERIENCED THE WARMEST THE WARMEST WINTER ON RECORD HERE IN VERMONT, 2023 WAS ALSO THE WARMEST YEAR TO DATE VERMONTERS HAVE OF COURSE, ENDURED MULTIPLE SEVERE FLOODING EVENTS. FROSTS, DROUGHT, ALL THINGS THAT CLIMATE SCIENTISTS EXPECT WILL CONTINUE IN THE FUTURE. SO HOW DO YOU THINK VERMONT CAN BETTER PREPARE FOR THIS KIND OF EVENT? MISTER ROGERS? WELL, WE CERTAINLY NEED TO BE AWARE OF THE BIGGER AND STRONGER STORMS, BOTH IN SNOW AND SO MANY OF OUR SNOW STORMS NOW ARE RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF FREEZING. SO MANY OF THEM COME WITH STICKY, WET SNOW AND ICE, TAKING DOWN POWER LINES AND TREES AND BLOCKING ROADS, BUT ALSO FLOODS. AND SO WHEN WE’RE WORKING ON OUR INFRASTRUCTURE, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE’RE BUILDING RESILIENCE. WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE RECLAIMING FLOODPLAINS AND TRYING TO KEEP WATER FROM BEING CHANNELED STRAIGHT INTO ALL THE RIVERS AND STREAMS WHERE IT CAN CREATE THE VELOCITY AND SPEED THAT IT TAKES IN AND TAKES THINGS OUT. SO THERE’S A LOT THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE, AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE’RE PLANNING AHEAD. SO AS WE’RE REBUILDING INFRASTRUCTURE, RESILIENCE IS PART OF THAT. BUT ONE OF THE THINGS WE DO ON OUR FARM IS PLANT LOTS OF COVER CROPS AND FOOD PLOTS AND MAINTAIN A LARGE AREA OF FOREST THAT HELPS TO ABSORB SOME OF THOSE HEAVY RAINS AND KEEP IT FROM GETTING TO THE RIVERS QUICKLY. WELL THANK YOU. AND THIS IS AN AREA WHERE WE HAVE THINGS IN COMMON AND THAT MY FARMING FOR 30 YEARS HAS BEEN ORGANIC, GROWING COVER CROPS TO SEQUESTER CARBON, HOLD SOIL IN PLACE AND SO FORTH. SO I THINK WE BOTH, AS INDIVIDUALS DO THAT. WELL, THE CHALLENGE IS WHAT ARE WE DOING AS A SOCIETY? AND THIS IS YET ANOTHER AREA WHERE IT’S BEEN TALKED ABOUT ALL THE THINGS WE NEED TO DO AND ALL THE MONEY WE NEED TO SPEND. BUT BUT THEN AFFORDABILITY IS ALSO DISCUSSED. I’M NOT SURE HOW MY OPPONENT PLANS TO BRIDGE THOSE TWO THINGS. I HAVE TALKED REGULARLY ABOUT THE FACT THAT UNDER REAGANOMICS AND UNDER REGRESSIVE TAXES, MORE AND MORE HAS BEEN PUT ON THE BACKS OF WORKING PEOPLE. I HAVE ADVOCATED FOR MY FULL 24 YEARS IN OFFICE TOWARDS A MORE PROGRESSIVE SYSTEM OF TAXATION, SO THAT THOSE WHO ARE MAKING A LOT OF MONEY AND ARE BENEFITING FROM THE SYSTEM ARE ALSO THEN CONTRIBUTING TO PUT IN THE LARGER CULVERTS, BUILD THE RESILIENCY. BUT ALSO, UNLIKE MY OPPONENT, I’VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR RENEWABLE ENERGY FOR 30 YEARS. HAVE WE DONE THIS INCREMENTALLY? OVER TIME, WE’D BE IN MUCH BETTER SHAPE TODAY, AND WE WOULDN’T BE HAVING TO DO IT ALL AT ONCE, WHICH IS, UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT’S STARTING TO APPEAR TO BE NEEDED. MR. ROGERS, YOUR OPPONENT, ASKED HOW YOU WOULD RECONCILE THOSE TWO INTERESTS. SO HOW WOULD YOU? WELL, ABSOLUTELY. I MEAN, I DIDN’T GROW UP IN PRIVILEGE AND WE HAD TO LIVE WITHIN OUR BUDGETS. GROWING UP AS FARMERS THAT DIDN’T HAVE A LOT OF MONEY, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT’S NOT TALKED ABOUT WITH RENEWABLE ENERGY FOR INSTANCE, MY OPPONENT SUPPORTS THE TRANSITION TO ELECTRIC CARS AND HE’S ACTUALLY ENDORSED, I BELIEVE, BY VERMONT CONSERVATION VOTERS. BUT WHEN I SPOKE WITH THEM, THEY DIDN’T EVEN KNOW ABOUT THE DESTRUCTION GOING ON IN THE CONGO, WHERE 70% OF THE COBALT IN THE WORLD COMES FROM, WHERE THEY’RE DESTROYING THE ENVIRONMENT AND THE PEOPLE THEY’RE USING SLAVE AND CHILD LABOR. SO WHEN WE ARE LOOKING AT RENEWABLE SOLUTIONS, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE’RE NOT DESTROYING THE PLANET AND A PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD. MR. ZUCKERMAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO RESPOND? WELL, LET’S BE CLEAR THERE IS NO PERFECT SOLUTION. AND I AGREE, THE HARM THAT’S DONE TO PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD BASED ON OUR ACTIONS IS HUGE. THE UNITED STATES, WE HAVE IMPORTED PRODUCTS AND EXPORTED THE EXTERNALITIES, THE LABOR ISSUES, THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES ON PEOPLE. ALL OVER THE OVER THE WORLD. BUT THEN MY OPPONENT DOESN’T WANT TO HAVE WIND ENERGY OR SOLAR FIELDS IN VERMONT. WE EITHER NEED TO OWN THE PRODUCTION AND BY THAT I NOT ONLY MEAN FINANCIALLY, BUT ALSO THE REALITY OF ITS IMPACTS RIGHT HERE IN OUR BACKYARDS OR GO BACK TO THE STONE AGES AND NOT HAVE POWER. I HAPPEN TO BELIEVE WE SHOULD TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR POWER. WE SHOULD INVEST IN RENEWABLE ENERGY HERE IN OUR BACKYARDS, PUTTING PEOPLE TO WORK, CREATING GOOD PAYING JOBS, AND TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR OUR ENERGY USE. WELL, ON THAT NOTE, IN RECENT YEARS, THE LEGISLATURE HAS PASSED MULTIPLE CLIMATE CHANGE RELATED BILLS AND OVERRIDDEN VETOES TO GET THEM DONE FOR EXAMPLE, THE RENEWABLE ENERGY STANDARD AND THE AFFORDABLE HEAT ACT. BUT SOME REPORTS SHOW THAT THE AFFORDABLE HEAT ACT COULD COST VERMONT NEARLY $10 BILLION. CAN VERMONTERS REALISTICALLY AFFORD THIS RIGHT NOW? MR. ZUCKERMAN NO. THEY CAN’T, AND THE REALITY IS NOTHING IN THE AFFORDABLE HEAT ACT IS A LAW THAT’S GOING TO BE IMPLEMENTED UNLESS THE LEGISLATURE WERE TO VOTE FOR IT. I DON’T SEE ANYBODY IN THE LEGISLATURE. JOHN’S BEEN IN POLITICS LONG ENOUGH TO KNOW NO ONE’S GOING TO VOTE FOR A $10 BILLION BILL ON THE BACKS OF VERMONTERS. THAT’S ABSURD. THEY BARELY PASS BILLS THAT CAN RAISE 30 MILLION OR 50 MILLION. WHETHER IT’S FOR CHILD CARE OR HEALTH CARE. SO THAT IS A MYTH THAT THAT LAW IS GOING TO JUST GO INTO EFFECT WITH A $10 BILLION COST. THAT’S ESSENTIALLY FOLKS IN POLITICS TRYING TO SCARE EVERYBODY. BUT THAT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I DID SUPPORT THE AFFORDABLE HEAT ACT, WHICH WAS STUDYING. HOW DO WE CREATE A SYSTEM WHERE WEALTHIER FOLKS CAN INVEST IN OUR ENERGY SYSTEM AND WORKING CLASS PEOPLE CAN AFFORD TO PUT IN THE HEAT PUMPS OR THE ENERGY TRANSITIONS TO SAVE MONEY? MY GOAL EVERY SINGLE DAY WILL BE TO MAKE SURE HOW WE PAY FOR ALL OF THE THINGS THAT MY OPPONENT WANTS WILL ACTUALLY BE DONE IN A PROGRESSIVE WAY, SO THAT WE’RE NOT JUST A PLAYGROUND FOR THE RICH, BUT SO THAT THOSE FOLKS CAN PAY INTO THE SYSTEM THAT EVERYBODY IS A PART OF. MY OPPONENT’S PROGRESSIVE SEEMS TO ME LIKE REGRESSIVE, BUT HE KEEPS SAYING I DON’T SUPPORT RENEWABLE ENERGY. I DON’T SUPPORT BLOWING THE TOPS OFF OF MOUNTAINS, BUT I DO SUPPORT RENEWABLE ENERGY. AND THERE ARE SMARTER WAYS TO DO IT. MY OPPONENT GETS LOTS OF CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS FROM RENEWABLE ENERGY DEVELOPERS, AND I DON’T. BUT WHAT’S HAPPENED WITH THE RENEWABLE ENERGY STANDARD IS THEY’VE ADDED AN EXTRA $100 MILLION A YEAR TO VERMONTERS ELECTRIC BILLS, AND THE MAJORITY OF THAT MONEY IS GOING TO MILLIONAIRE DEVELOPERS AND THAT SHOULDN’T BE HAPPENING. RENEWABLE ENERGY AROUND THE WORLD IS SAID TO BE MORE COST EFFECTIVE THAN ANY OTHER KIND OF ENERGY DEVELOPMENT. SO WHY DOES IT COST SO MUCH MORE THAN MARKET RATE? ALL RENEWABLE ENERGY SHOULD BE AT MARKET RATE, AND IT SHOULD BE BUILT ON THE BUILT ENVIRONMENT. WE SHOULD NOT BE BUILDING IN FARM FIELDS AND EXCLUDING WILDLIFE WITH FENCES AND ADDING TO THE HEAT FROM THE REFLECTION OF THOSE BLACK PANELS. IT SHOULD BE GOING ON ROOFS IN PARKING LOTS NEAR WHERE THE ENERGY IS NEEDED. WELL, WE’VE MENTIONED THIS A BIT, BUT LET’S GO INTO DEEPER DEPTH NOW. THIS RACE FEATURES A MATCHUP. MAYBE IT’S A BIT UNIQUE IN THE MODERN ERA BETWEEN TWO FARMERS. A VEGETABLE FARMER IN MR. ZUCKERMAN AND A HEMP, HEMP AND CANNABIS FARMER IN MR. ROGERS. SO WHICH WHAT WHAT PERSPECTIVES WILL EACH OF YOU BRING FROM THE WORLD OF AGRICULTURE TO THE STATE HOUSE? AND WHY WOULD THOSE PERSPECTIVES BE IMPORTANT TODAY? MR. ROGERS? WELL, I THINK IT’S REAL EASY TO BE A FARMER WHEN YOU GREW UP WEALTHY, AND IT’S DIFFERENT WHEN YOU GROW UP IN THE NORTHEAST KINGDOM AS PART OF A DAIRY FARM FAMILY THAT’S BEEN FARMING THERE FOR MANY GENERATIONS. BUT AGRICULTURE IS SO IMPORTANT TO THIS STATE. AND AS I SAID BEFORE, WE DO A LOT OF THINGS LIKE DELAYED MOWING FOR GRASSLAND BIRDS AND LOTS OF FOOD PLOTS FOR FOR THE WILDLIFE. WE GROW A LOT OF OUR OWN FOOD. WE REALLY, AS A STATE, NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON MORE LOCAL FOOD. THAT’S ANOTHER THING YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE FOLKS THAT CLAIM TO BE ALL ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, THEY STILL BUY FOODS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD THAT HAS A HUGE CARBON FOOTPRINT AND WE REALLY NEED TO DO BETTER BY OUR AGRICULTURE AND BY THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE, BY GROWING MORE AFFORDABLE, MORE LOCAL FOOD AND CUT DOWN ON THE TRUCKING, AGRICULTURE IS IMPORTANT BOTH FOR THE CONTRIBUTION ECONOMICALLY, IT MAKES DIRECTLY, BUT ALSO IN KEEPING VERMONT OPEN AND WORKING LANDS WELL, THANK YOU. AND I THINK THIS IS A PLACE WHERE WE ACTUALLY HAVE MUCH MORE IN COMMON THAN DIFFERENCE. AND DON’T REALLY NEED TO BE ATTACKING EACH OTHER FOR WORKING THE LAND, PRODUCING FOOD, FIBER MEDICINE FOR FOLKS. I THINK THE WORKING LANDS ARE THE BACKBONE OF VERMONT. IT BRINGS OUR TOURISM. IT BRINGS OUR AGRICULTURAL BEAUTY AS WELL AS OUR FOOD AND OUR MAPLE PRODUCTS. AND I THINK WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT LOCAL FOOD. ALL OF MY FOOD IS SOLD WITHIN ABOUT 50 MILES OF THE FARM, MOST OF IT WITHIN ABOUT 25 MILES OF THE FARM, WITH COVER CROPS TO SEQUESTER CARBON. WE NEED TO CONTINUE AS I DID AS CHAIR OF AGRICULTURE IN THE HOUSE TO EXPAND THE LAWS THAT SUPPORT LOCAL AGRICULTURE, WHETHER IT’S THE FARM TO PLATE PROGRAM, FARM TO SCHOOL PROGRAM. I WAS VERY INVOLVED WITH BOTH OF THOSE LAWS, AND WE’VE SEEN A GREAT EXPANSION OF LOCALLY PRODUCED FOOD IN VERMONT, WHICH I THINK IS CRITICAL NOT ONLY FOR SUSTENANCE AND THE ENVIRONMENT, BUT ALSO FOR COMMUNITY. THE FARMERS MARKET WHERE I SELL MY PRODUCT AND WHEN I VISIT FARMERS MARKETS ALL ACROSS THE STATE. THAT’S WHERE PEOPLE OF ALL WALKS OF LIFE COME TOGETHER TO BE ABLE TO SEE EACH OTHER AND BE A PART OF A COMMUNITY TOGETHER, WHICH IS WHAT WE NEED TO KEEP DOING NOW, IS BUILD OUR COMMUNITY BACK. AND I THINK FOOD AND WORK IN THE FIELDS DOES THAT. ALL RIGHT, GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU. WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A QUICK BREAK. WE’LL CONTINUE OUR DEBATE WHEN WE COME BACK. DON’T GO AWAY. WELCOME BACK TO THE NBC5 COMMITMENT 2024 DEBATE BETWEEN THE DEMOCRATIC, PROGRESSIVE AND REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR THE VERMONT LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR’S RACE. WE ARE JOINED IN STUDIO BY DEMOCRATIC, REPUBLICAN, DEMOCRATIC, PROGRESSIVE CANDIDATE. EXCUSE ME AND CURRENT LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR DAVID ZUCKERMAN AND HIS REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER, JOHN ROGERS, A FORMER STATE SENATOR FROM THE NORTHEAST KINGDOM. AND WE WILL RESUME OUR QUESTIONING NOW OF COURSE, INTEREST IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WILL BE A MAJOR DRIVER OF VOTER TURNOUT AT THE POLLS IN NOVEMBER. SO WHO ARE YOU SUPPORTING IN THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND WHY? MISTER ROGERS, SINCE YOU ARE A REPUBLICAN WHO USED TO BE A DEMOCRAT, WE’RE GOING TO START WITH YOU. WELL, I’D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT I STILL HAVE THE EXACT SAME DEMOCRATIC VALUES I’VE ALWAYS HAD. AND I CERTAINLY WON’T BE VOTING FOR MR. TRUMP, MUCH TO THE CHAGRIN OF OF SOME OF THE REPUBLICANS. AND I UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WANT TO VOTE FOR SOMEONE WHO IS NOT ESTABLISHMENT AND IS NOT A LIFETIME POLITICIAN, BUT I CERTAINLY CAN’T SUPPORT HIM. KAMALA HARRIS HAS SOME ISSUES THAT I AM CONCERNED ABOUT TOO, AND FOR THE LAST FEW ELECTIONS, I HAVE NOT SUPPORTED A MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATE BECAUSE I REALLY THINK THAT NONE OF THEM ARE VERY INSPIRING, AND IT’S HARD TO BELIEVE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT THIS IS THE BEST WE COULD DO. I WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO PICK A THIRD PARTY CANDIDATE OR WRITE SOMEONE IN AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE I THINK IT GOES WITHOUT SAYING THAT KAMALA HARRIS WILL BE CALLED THE WINNER HERE IN THE STATE OF VERMONT. SHORTLY AFTER 7:00. WELL, I WILL VERY CLEARLY BE SUPPORTING VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS AND GOVERNOR TIM WALZ FOR PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. THIS ELECTION IS THE MOST CRITICAL THERE HAS EVER BEEN, BOTH WITH RESPECT TO THE FACT THAT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS CHALLENGED AND DENIED ELECTION RESULTS, WHICH IS THE FOUNDATION OF OUR DEMOCRACY. WE HAVE THE MOST CLEAN AND UNFETTERED SYSTEM IN THE IN THE WORLD WITH RESPECT TO THE FRAUD THAT THEY CLAIM AND SO FORTH, AND WE NEED TO PUT THAT TO REST, EVEN IN A STATE THAT IS AS STRONGLY GOING TO VOTE FOR KAMALA HARRIS AND TIM WALZ. I’M GOING TO VOTE FOR REPRODUCTIVE LIBERTY. I’M GOING TO VOTE FOR CIVIL RIGHTS. I’M GOING TO VOTE FOR PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IN THE RULE OF LAW. THESE ARE PRETTY FUNDAMENTAL FACTORS ABOUT THE CORE OF WHO WE ARE. SURE, IT’S A PRIVILEGE THAT IN VERMONT WE’RE PROBABLY GOING TO WIN SO BIG THAT IT WON’T MATTER FOR THE ELECTORAL VOTES OF VERMONT. BUT OUR CUMULATIVE VOTES ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY MATTER. THIS CURRENT CULT, FORMER PRESIDENT NEEDS TO BE PUT TO REST WITH RESPECT TO THE ELECTION RESULTS, AND EVERY VOTE COUNTS IN THAT REGARD. EACH OF YOU HAVE HAD MULTIPLE PARTY LABELS. MR. ZUCKERMAN, YOU’VE RUN FOR OFFICE AS A PROGRESSIVE AND AS A DEMOCRAT, MR. ROGERS AS A DEMOCRAT AND AS A REPUBLICAN. WHAT DO THESE AFFILIATIONS MEAN TO YOU AND HOW WOULD YOU REACH ACROSS THE AISLE, MR. ZUCKERMAN? WE’LL START WITH YOU. WELL, MULTIPLE FACTORS. I WAS CHAIR OF AGRICULTURE FOR MANY YEARS, AND WE HAD UNANIMOUS VOTES OUT OF COMMITTEE MANY TIMES. WE HAD DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS, INDEPENDENTS AND PROGRESSIVES. SO FOUR DIFFERENT CATEGORIES. SO I’VE WORKED ACROSS THE AISLE FOR YEARS. I WORKED ACROSS THE AISLE ON CANNABIS REFORM SO THAT JOHN AND OTHERS COULD GET INTO THIS GREAT BUSINESS. AND HE DID WORK ON THAT BILL AS WELL. I WORKED ACROSS THE AISLE ON MEDICAL AID IN DYING WITH REPUBLICANS AS WELL. SO I’VE WORKED ACROSS THE AISLE MANY, MANY TIMES ON MANY, MANY ISSUES FOR ME, THE REASON TO HAVE MULTIPLE PARTY LABELS IS TO HELP DEFINE WHERE YOU ARE IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS. I BELIEVE THAT WE NEED MORE CHOICES. AS JOHN TALKED ABOUT, BUT I’VE ALSO BEEN FIGHTING FOR ELECTION REFORM TO ALLOW THAT. IT SHOULDN’T JUST BE THE PRIVILEGE IN A HIGHLY BLUE OR HIGHLY RED STATE, TO BE ABLE TO VOTE THIRD PARTY AS KIND OF A THROWAWAY SYMBOLIC VOTE, WE SHOULD ACTUALLY HAVE A SYSTEM LIKE RANKED CHOICE VOTING. WE SHOULD HAVE A SYSTEM OF PUBLIC FINANCING SO THAT MORE EVERYDAY PEOPLE CAN RUN MORE EVERYDAY PEOPLE CAN SERVE, AND SO THAT THE VOTERS CAN GET A BETTER IDEA OF THE LEANINGS OF YOUR POLITICS. I RUN AS A PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT TO POINT OUT THAT IN THE BIG TENT PARTY THAT APPLAUDS, YOU KNOW, THE CHENEY FAMILY, TO BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTING KAMALA HARRIS, WHICH MY OPPONENT IS NOT READY TO DO YET, THAT WITHIN THAT BIG TENT, I’M ON THE BERNIE SANDERS END WHERE I SUPPORT PROGRESSIVE TAXES TO PAY FOR THE SERVICES FOR VERMONTERS. I THINK IT’S A BIT ODD THAT MY OPPONENT SUPPORTS RANKED CHOICE VOTING, BECAUSE I THINK KITTY TOL WOULD BE OUR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR RIGHT NOW IF WE WOULD HAVE HAD THAT TWO YEARS AGO. I HAVE NEVER BEEN A PARTIZAN PERSON, AND MUCH MORE THAN MY OPPONENT. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN KNOWN AS A PERSON WHO VOTED FOR MY CONSTITUENTS. AND THAT’S WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT. I SEE MY OPPONENT AND THE PROGRESSIVES HAVE TAKEN OVER THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND QUITE FRANKLY, ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM AS TO WHY THIS STATE IS SO UNAFFORDABLE. THAT’S WHY I GOT INTO THIS RACE, BECAUSE I AM LOOKING AT A STATE THAT MY GRANDKIDS ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO AFFORD TO LIVE IN, AND THAT’S WHY I WANT TO BE THE NEXT LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. MR. ZUCKERMAN, WOULD YOU LIKE TO RESPOND? SURE. IN FACT, I WOULD SUPPORT RANKED CHOICE VOTING, AND IF I HAD LOST DUE TO IT, I WOULD HAVE HONORED THE RESULTS. THE POINT OF RANKED CHOICE VOTING IS SO THAT YOU CAN HAVE 3 OR 4 PEOPLE RUNNING, AND YOU DON’T END UP SPLITTING VOTES IN FACT, THAT’S THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT MY OPPONENT JUST SAID. AND THAT IT’S NOT ABOUT ME WINNING OR LOSING. IT’S ABOUT A VOTING SYSTEM THAT GIVES YOU MORE CHOICES. AND AS FAR AS REPRESENTING FOLKS, I THINK FOLKS HAVE GENERALLY SUPPORTED THE BILLS THAT I’VE HELPED LEAD THE WAY ON FROM MARRIAGE EQUALITY, WHERE I WAS A LEAD SPONSOR TO CANNABIS REFORM, TO RAISING THE MINIMUM WAGE. SO I DO BELIEVE I, I REPRESENT VERMONTERS IN THOSE WAYS. NOW TO A NATIONAL ISSUE WITH LOCAL IMPLICATIONS. THE SWANTON SECTOR OF U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION HAS REPORTED RECORD NUMBERS OF ILLEGAL CROSSINGS IN ITS DISTRICT, WHICH INCLUDES ALL OF VERMONT’S NORTHERN BORDER. SHOULD VERMONT’S LEADERS BE ADVOCATING FOR ANY DIFFERENT FEDERAL POLICIES THAT WOULD PERHAPS ALLEVIATE SOME PRESSURE ON THE BORDER AND ON THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEIR LANDS TRESPASSED ON BY THESE CROSSINGS? TO MISTER ROGERS, FOLLOWED BY MISTER ZUCKERMAN. YEAH, IT’S A SERIOUS ISSUE. AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE WAYS THAT PEOPLE CAN IMMIGRATE HERE LEGALLY. AND I WISH THEY WOULD ALL DO THAT. TOWNS AND VILLAGES AND CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY. I DON’T THINK CAN TAKE THE EXTRA BURDEN. WE ALREADY HAVE HOMELESS PROBLEMS. WE ALREADY HAVE ISSUES WITH KEEPING UP WITH THE FINANCES OF THE STATE. SO OUR BORDERS DO NEED TO BE SECURE. I DON’T REALLY WANT TO SEE ANYTHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A MILITARY STATE FOR CERTAIN, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE’RE NOT HAVING PEOPLE TRESPASSING ON PEOPLE’S PRIVATE PROPERTY AND DOING DAMAGE TO THEIR PROPERTY BECAUSE THEY’RE COMING IN ILLEGALLY AND THEY DON’T HAVE MONEY AND, YOU KNOW, THEY’RE UNDER SEVERE STRESS AND WITH LOTS OF NEEDS. SO WE NEED TO HAVE A BETTER SYSTEM IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THOSE FOLKS WHO WANT TO COME HERE LEGALLY CAN GET THROUGH THE PROCESS IN A IN A TIMELY FASHION, AND MAKE SURE OUR BORDERS ARE SECURE. SO I STAND IN LEAGUE WITH SENATOR SANDERS, SENATOR WELSH AND CONGRESSWOMAN BALINT, AND HAVING SUPPORTED THE BIPARTISAN IMMIGRATION BILL THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN WASHINGTON CRUSHED BECAUSE OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTING A POLITICAL VICTORY THAT WOULD HAVE INVESTED MILLIONS AND MILLIONS, IF NOT BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN MORE BORDER SECURITY, MORE BORDER AGENTS, BUT ALSO MORE JUDGES TO PROCESS PEOPLE WHETHER THEY ARE COMING IN THROUGH THE LEGAL SYSTEM OR WITHOUT VALID PAPERWORK TO COME IN LEGALLY. WE CERTAINLY HAVE TO SUPPORT OUR FEDERAL DELEGATION. AS I HAVE IN THAT WORK. AND HOPEFULLY IF WE VOTE FOR PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS AND TIM WALZ AND A CONGRESS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE THAT WILL PASS SUCH A BILL THAT WILL GREATLY IMPROVE THE SITUATION FOR VERMONT. SENATOR LEAHY DID A TREMENDOUS JOB IN GETTING THE FACILITY PUT UP IN SAINT ALBANS. IT’S CREATED TONS OF JOBS AND AND PUTS THE WHOLE SWANTON SECTOR, WHICH GOES ACROSS THE TOP OF NEW YORK, AS WELL AS ACROSS THE TOP OF VERMONT AND OVER NEW HAMPSHIRE. TO MAKE THAT INVESTMENT. AND I WOULD HOPE THEY’D EXPAND THAT. WE NOW WANT TO MOVE ON TO SOME QUESTIONS SPECIFIC TO EACH CANDIDATE. MR. ZUCKERMAN, VERMONT DIGGER REPORTED THAT SOME FEMALE LAWMAKERS FELT UNCOMFORTABLE WITH A PAST DECISION FROM YOU TO MAKE FEMININE HYGIENE PRODUCTS AVAILABLE IN YOUR OFFICE. THIS LED TO SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE JILL KRUPINSKI TO MAKE SEVERAL RECOMMENDATIONS, INCLUDING THAT YOU CONSIDER NOT MEETING WITH WOMEN ONE ON ONE. WHAT HAVE YOU LEARNED FROM THAT EXPERIENCE? WELL, LET ME GIVE A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT, AND I THANK YOU FOR BRINGING IT UP. WHEN I FIRST BECAME LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR IN 2017, IT WAS BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION THAT THERE WAS NOT THE PRODUCTS IN THE BUILDING THAT WERE NEEDED. AND I MET WITH LEGISLATIVE LEADERSHIP. THE SERGEANT AT ARMS AND BUILDINGS AND GENERAL SERVICES, AND IT BECAME A BUREAUCRATIC NIGHTMARE JUST SIMPLY TO HAVE PRODUCTS IN THE BATHROOMS AND SO, ALONG WITH MY CHIEF OF STAFF, WHO SUGGESTED THIS, WE PUT A DRAWER OUT IN THE CHIEF OF STAFF’S OFFICE ENTRYWAY FULL OF PRODUCTS, AND PEOPLE USE THEM FOR FOUR YEARS. AND IT WAS RESPECTED AND WAS WELCOME. WHEN I GOT BACK, I DID THE SAME THING WHERE I MAYBE OVERSTEPPED WAS IN BEING MORE OPEN WITH FOLKS TO SAY, THESE ARE THERE. IF YOU NEED THEM. AND AS SOON AS I LEARNED THAT IT MADE ANYONE UNCOMFORTABLE, WE REMOVED THE PRODUCTS AND I STOPPED OFFERING THEM. AND MISTER ROGERS, IN 2020, YOU HAD A BIT OF A DUST UP OF YOUR OWN. SEVEN DAYS REPORTED AT THE TIME THAT SOME COLLEAGUES IN THE SENATE CRITICIZED YOU FOR SENDING AN EMAIL USING THE PHRASE SNIPPY LITTLE B-WORD. WE SHOULD ALSO NOTE THAT YOUR COLLEAGUES ACCEPTED AN APOLOGY, WHICH YOU INSISTED WAS NOT DIRECTED, THAT PHRASE AT A SPECIFIC PERSON. VERMONT DIGGER ALSO REPORTED THAT YOU WERE CRITICIZED FOR USING THE F WORD IN AN UNRELATED EMAIL AS WELL. GIVEN THOSE INCIDENTS, HOW CAN YOU ASSURE VERMONTERS THAT YOU WILL CONDUCT YOURSELF APPROPRIATELY AND WORK IN A COLLEGIAL FASHION IF YOU WIN THIS RACE? I’VE ALWAYS RESPECTED EVERYONE UNTIL THEY DISRESPECT ME AND MY NAME ISN’T JESUS. I’VE. I’VE TURNED MY OTHER CHEEK AN AWFUL LOT, BUT FIRST OFF, THE SO-CALLED REPORTER FOR DIGGER GOT THE STORY WRONG AND HAD TO MAKE A CORRECTION. BUT NOBODY READS THE CORRECTIONS THAT I ACTUALLY FELT LIKE I WAS THE VICTIM BECAUSE I HAD TOLD MY LEADER, BECCA BALINT, AND SENATOR ASH THAT I WAS HAVING ISSUES BECAUSE OF THE BUSINESSES THAT I OWN THAT WERE CLOSED BECAUSE OF COVID, AND I WOULDN’T BE ABLE TO MAKE EVERY SINGLE MEETING AND THEN ONE OF THE SENATORS MADE A SNIDE REMARK ABOUT ME NOT BEING AT THE MEETINGS. SO MY LEADERS BOTH FAILED ME IN NOT TELLING THE CHAIRS OF MY COMMITTEES THAT I WAS OUT FOR PERSONAL REASONS, AND THEY KNEW ABOUT IT. I’VE ALWAYS HANDLED MYSELF APPROPRIATELY AND BEEN POLITE TO EVERYONE, AND I THINK IF YOU TALK WITH THE FOLKS AROUND THE STATE HOUSE, YOU WILL SEE THAT THAT IS SO. BUT LEGISLATORS DO RECEIVE A LOT OF ABUSE FROM SOME PEOPLE, AND IT IS SOMETIMES HARD TO TAKE. AND SOMETIMES WE LOSE OUR TEMPER, AS YOU SAY, I DID APOLOGIZE AND WAS SORRY THAT I USED THE WORDS AND I SHOULDN’T HAVE, BUT IT WAS A REACTION TO WHAT I THOUGHT WAS A TARGETING OF MYSELF. OKAY? AND STAYING WITH YOU, MISTER ROGERS, RECENT LIEUTENANT GOVERNORS HAVE CHAMPIONED CERTAIN CAUSES OR HAD SPECIAL PROJECTS. FOR EXAMPLE, MOLLY GRAY HAD A SERIES OF WHAT SHE CALLED SEAT AT THE TABLE EVENTS WHERE SHE GAVE LOCALS AROUND THE STATE A DIRECT LINE TO TELL HER ABOUT THEIR CONCERNS. PHIL SCOTT HAD HIS EVERYDAY JOBS TOUR, WHERE HE LEARNED ABOUT ISSUES FACING THE STATE’S WORKFORCE FIRST HAND. WHAT SPECIFIC ISSUES WOULD YOU CHAMPION IN THIS WAY IF IF YOU BECOME LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR? YEAH, MY MAIN MISSION, JACK, IS TO BRING WORKING CLASS VERMONTERS VOICES BACK TO THE STATEHOUSE. I BELIEVE THAT’S MISSING. I BELIEVE SINCE COVID, IT FEELS LIKE DEMOCRACY HAS LEFT THAT BUILDING. THERE ARE FEWER PEOPLE IN THE BUILDING. THEY NOW HAVE CONTROLS ON HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN BE IN THE COMMITTEE ROOMS. AND QUITE FRANKLY, FROM THE LEGISLATION THAT HAS PASSED IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, I DON’T THINK WORKING VERMONTERS ARE BEING LISTENED TO AND SO MY MISSION IS TO TRAVEL AROUND THE STATE TO TALK WITH EVERYDAY PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR ISSUES AND BRING THOSE ISSUES BACK INTO THE STATEHOUSE AND INVITE THEM INTO THE STATEHOUSE TO HELP THEM MEET WITH THEIR LEGISLATURE, LEGISLATORS AND SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES AND THEIR NEEDS. AS I TRAVEL AROUND THIS STATE, THE ONLY THING I’M HEARING ABOUT IS AFFORDABILITY AND SO MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WE CAN’T AFFORD TO LIVE HERE ANYMORE. AND I THINK THAT’S SAD. IT’S GOING TO CHANGE THE SHAPE OF VERMONT UNLESS WE GET CONTROL OF THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS. WELL, ALONG THOSE SAME LINES, MISTER ZUCKERMAN, YOU’VE CHAMPIONED THE CAUSE OF READING BANNED BOOKS. WOULD YOU CONTINUE THAT OR PURSUE OTHER INITIATIVES? IF YOU’RE REELECTED? WELL, ACTUALLY, OVER THE YEARS I’VE BEEN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR. I’VE DONE A FEW DIFFERENT THINGS. I ALSO HELD A MOVIE SERIES AROUND THE STATE THAT WAS VERY INCLUSIVE, SHOWING MOVIES ABOUT EITHER HISTORICAL PRECEDENTS AROUND UNION ORGANIZING AND WORKERS RIGHTS, GETTING FAIR WAGES WHICH ACTUALLY LIFT UP EVERYONE TO MOVIES AROUND INTELLIGENT MINDS, WHICH WAS TO SAY THAT A LOT OF FOLKS WHO HAVE INTELLECTUAL DIFFERENCES CAN ACTUALLY BE VERY PRODUCTIVE IN SOCIETY. AND REALLY, TO REDUCE THE STIGMA, INCLUDING MOVIES AROUND SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER AS WELL. SO I’VE DONE THE MOVIE SERIES, I’VE DONE THE DEMOCRACY AND BANNED BOOKS SERIES. I’VE ALSO WORKED TO CREATE A LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR NEWSLETTER TO INVITE PEOPLE INTO THE PROCESS, TO KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT’S GOING ON. YOU CAN SIGN UP FOR IT AT THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR’S WEBSITE, SO YOU CAN GET MORE DEPTH ON THE ISSUES, AND THEN CONTACT YOUR LEGISLATORS. I ALSO JUST WANT TO CORRECT A SLIGHT BIT OF MISINFORMATION. I DON’T THINK IT WAS INTENTIONAL, BUT THERE’S NO LIMIT IN THE ROOMS ANYMORE IN TERMS OF THE BUILDING. WE ALSO HAVE NOW EXPANDED PEOPLE’S ACCESS TO WATCH THE PROCESS BECAUSE ALL THE MEETINGS ARE NOW BROADCAST LIVE VIRTUALLY, WHICH I THINK IS REALLY OPENED UP. THE ABILITY FOR PEOPLE TO SEE WHAT’S GOING ON. AND THEN HELPS THEM WITH MORE INFORMATION. SO THAT THEY CAN CONTACT THEIR LEGISLATORS AS I HOPE PEOPLE DO. WHENEVER YOU HAVE AN ISSUE, TO LET THEM KNOW WHAT’S ON YOUR MIND, WHAT YOU’VE SEEN, WHAT YOU’D LIKE TO SEE DIFFERENT. AND THAT’S BEEN MY PROCESS FOR 24 YEARS, IS GOING AROUND THE STATE WORKING ON ISSUES AND BRINGING PEOPLE INTO THE PROCESS, AND I’LL CONTINUE TO DO THAT. ALL RIGHT. WELL, BEFORE WE GET TO YOUR CLOSING STATEMENTS, WE HAVE SOME QUICK LIGHTNING ROUND QUESTIONS FOR YOU. SO DO YOUR BEST TO ANSWER THEM IN A WORD OR IN A SENTENCE. FIRST, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO VOTE THIS YEAR IN PERSON? EARLY BY MAIL AT A DROP BOX? YOU FIRST, JOHN, I LIKE TO VOTE IN PERSON. I WILL ALSO BE VOTING IN PERSON AND THIS YEAR WAS THE FIRST YEAR MY DAUGHTER VOTED AND WE WENT IN TOGETHER THIS PRIMARY TO VOTE AT THE SAME TIME. IT WAS A REAL PLEASURE. ALL RIGHT. NEXT QUESTION. HAVE YOU GOTTEN OR DO YOU PLAN TO GET THE NEWEST COVID 19 VACCINE? MR. ZUCKERMAN, I’VE GOTTEN FIVE SHOTS, SO FAR. I ACTUALLY WAS JUST MEETING WITH MY EYE DOCTOR BECAUSE I’VE GOT A NEW AUTOIMMUNE ISSUE, AND HE ACTUALLY RECOMMENDED THAT I DON’T GET THE SHOT AT THIS POINT IN TIME. SO I’M GOING TO FOLLOW MY DOCTOR’S ADVICE ON THAT. BUT I THINK FOLKS THAT CAN SHOULD TO HELP REDUCE THE SPREAD. I’M NOT GOING TO GET THE THE VACCINE. AND THAT WAS A VERY LONG ONE WORD ANSWER ONE MORE. WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE MUSIC GENRE? STARTING WITH JOHN CLASSIC ROCK. YEAH. SIMILARLY, A CLASSIC ROCK AND REGGAE. IT’S CERTAINLY NICE TO SEE SOME AGREEMENT IN POLITICS. WE NOW WANT TO GET TO YOUR CLOSING STATEMENTS, BECAUSE JOHN ROGERS WENT FIRST IN THE OPENING STATEMENTS. HE WILL GO SECOND FOR CLOSINGS. THAT’S NOT WHAT I WAS TOLD, BUT OKAY. WELL, I WELCOME YOUR INPUT. I THANK YOU FOR WATCHING TODAY. YOU’VE HEARD NOT ONLY ABOUT MY GOALS AND MY EXPERIENCE, BUT ACTUAL CONCRETE IDEAS THAT ARE REALISTIC AROUND COMING UP WITH MONEY FOR THE IDEAS AND THE ISSUES WE NEED TO ADDRESS, WHETHER IT’S AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHETHER IT’S PROPERTY TAXES, AND WHETHER IT’S CLIMATE ISSUES. WE KNOW THAT THESE ARE ISSUES BEFORE US. THE QUESTION IS, HOW ARE WE GOING TO ADDRESS THEM? AND I BELIEVE THAT WORKING COLLABORATIVELY WITH PEOPLE ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM, WE CAN MAKE IT SO THAT VERMONT IS NO LONGER JUST A PLAYGROUND FOR THE RICH, WHICH IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE WITH NEW YORK AND BOSTON AND CONNECTICUT FOLKS MOVING HERE, BECAUSE VERMONT IS SUCH A BEAUTIFUL, WONDERFUL PLACE TO LIVE. THAT IS THROWING THE SUPPLY AND DEMAND CURVE OFF, AND IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE THAT WAY UNLESS WE MAKE THE INVESTMENTS WE NEED IN VERMONTERS, WHETHER IT’S A PROGRESSIVE PROPERTY TAX. SO WEALTHY PEOPLE PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE, WHETHER IT’S SECOND HOMEOWNERS. SO THEY PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE OR WHETHER IT’S EFFICIENCIES IN OUR EDUCATION SYSTEM, MY PRIORITIES ARE AFFORDABLE HOUSING, REDUCING THE INCREASES IN PROPERTY TAXES AND TACKLING OUR CLIMATE CRISIS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU JACK AND LIZ, FOR HAVING US HERE AND NBC FOR HAVING THIS. I BELIEVE DAVID AND I COULDN’T BE MORE DIFFERENT. HE GREW UP IN A VERY WEALTHY PART OF MASSACHUSETTS. I GREW UP IN THE NORTHEAST KINGDOM. I BELIEVE I CAN REPRESENT REGULAR VERMONTERS BETTER BECAUSE I’M A REGULAR VERMONTER. I GREW UP WORKING IN AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY, AND THE TRADES. I BELIEVE MY OPPONENT PRETENDS TO BE A LOT OF THINGS. HE PRETENDS TO BE A DEMOCRAT. HE PRETENDS TO BE A POOR FARMER. HE PRETENDS TO SUPPORT LIVABLE WAGES. I AM VERY PROUD TO HAVE THE GOVERNOR’S ENDORSEMENT BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR WANTS A LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR THAT HE CAN WORK WITH, AND I WANT TO WORK WITH THE GOVERNOR AND EVERY OTHER LEGISLATOR WHO IS WILLING TO WORK WITH ME TO PROVIDE MORE AFFORDABLE SOLUTIONS FOR VERMONT. WE HAVE TO LIVE WITHIN OUR MEANS. MY OPPONENT KEEPS BRINGING UP. WE NEED MORE MONEY FOR EVERYTHING. WE PROBABLY NEED MORE MONEY FOR SOME THINGS, BUT THERE ARE EFFICIENCIES IN GOVERNMENT THAT HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT, JUST LIKE WE LOOK AT OUR OWN BUDGETS. ALL RIGHT, WELL, THAT IS JUST ABOUT TIME FOR OUR DEBATE TONIGHT. WE WANT TO THANK BOTH CANDIDATES AND YOU AT HOME FOR BEING A PART OF THIS NBC FIVE COMMITMENT. 2024 DEBATE. AND A REMINDER IN VERMONT, YOU CAN REGISTER TO VOTE ONLINE OR AT YOUR CITY OR TOWN CLERK’S OFFICE UP TO AND EVEN ON ELECTION DAY ITSELF. TUESDAY, NOVEMBER FIFTH. STAY WITH NBC FIVE. THIS ELECTION SEASON FOR MORE COMMITMENT. 2024 COVERAGE. HAVE A GREAT NIGHT. GOOD NIGHT.
Vermont Lt. Governor candidates David Zuckerman, John Rodgers face off in debate
Up to date: 9:26 PM EDT Sep 18, 2024
NBC5 hosted a dwell debate on Wednesday night time because the candidates for Vermont lieutenant governor confronted off in our South Burlington studio.Democratic candidate David Zuckerman debated his Republican challenger, John Rodgers, in an hourlong particular.An on-demand model shall be made accessible later within the night.Background on the candidatesIncumbent Lt. Gov. David Zuckerman gained the Democratic major final month after going through off towards Winooski Deputy Mayor Thomas Renner. He defeated Renner with greater than 60% of the vote. Zuckerman is a veteran state politician and former legislator who served 14 years within the Vermont Home of Representatives earlier than being elected as a state senator for Chittenden County in 2012. After serving 4 years in that position, Zuckerman was elected as lieutenant governor in 2017, the place he served for 2 phrases.He unsuccessfully ran for governor in 2021, resulting in a two-year hiatus from authorities. Zuckerman was reelected as lieutenant governor in 2023.John Rodgers is a longtime Vermont state politician who served as a Democrat for eight years within the Vermont Home of Representatives earlier than turning into a state senator representing the Essex-Orleans District. Rodgers mentioned he feels the Democratic social gathering he as soon as belonged to is just too progressive now and hurting Vermonters, which is why he selected to alter platforms. He defeated Gregory Thayer within the Republican major final month with greater than 60% of the vote.
NBC5 hosted a dwell debate on Wednesday night time because the candidates for Vermont lieutenant governor confronted off in our South Burlington studio.
Democratic candidate David Zuckerman debated his Republican challenger, John Rodgers, in an hourlong particular.
An on-demand model shall be made accessible later within the night.
Background on the candidates
Incumbent Lt. Gov. David Zuckerman gained the Democratic major final month after going through off towards Winooski Deputy Mayor Thomas Renner. He defeated Renner with greater than 60% of the vote. Zuckerman is a veteran state politician and former legislator who served 14 years within the Vermont Home of Representatives earlier than being elected as a state senator for Chittenden County in 2012. After serving 4 years in that position, Zuckerman was elected as lieutenant governor in 2017, the place he served for 2 phrases.
He unsuccessfully ran for governor in 2021, resulting in a two-year hiatus from authorities. Zuckerman was reelected as lieutenant governor in 2023.
John Rodgers is a longtime Vermont state politician who served as a Democrat for eight years within the Vermont Home of Representatives earlier than turning into a state senator representing the Essex-Orleans District. Rodgers mentioned he feels the Democratic social gathering he as soon as belonged to is just too progressive now and hurting Vermonters, which is why he selected to alter platforms. He defeated Gregory Thayer within the Republican major final month with greater than 60% of the vote.
